South Africans Abroad
A show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode, we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones, or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat, and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles, and joys of being a South African living overseas.
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South Africans Abroad
Trading African Sun for Nordic Winters: Roy Bowden's Swedish Journey
Roy Bowden's journey from the sun-drenched beaches of Port Shepston to the snow-covered forests of Sweden offers a fascinating window into the dramatic contrasts of expatriate life. As a boat builder who once helped prepare the first blind man to sail solo from South Africa to Australia, Roy's adventurous spirit has carried him through multiple countries before finding an unexpected home in Scandinavia.
The cultural shift proves as dramatic as the climatic one. Roy vividly describes the transition from South Africa's open, spontaneous social culture to Sweden's more structured, reserved society where "you wouldn't just pitch up at somebody's house on a weekend." This adjustment represents one of the most significant challenges for South Africans abroad – recalibrating expectations around friendship and community building.
Brexit introduced a bureaucratic nightmare that continues to shadow Roy's life in Sweden. Despite being married to a Swedish citizen for nine years, the end of EU freedom of movement left him in a precarious legal position, highlighting how international politics can dramatically impact individual lives without warning. His four-year battle to secure legal residency serves as a cautionary tale about the complex, shifting landscape of international immigration.
Yet amidst these challenges, Roy finds profound joy in Sweden's seasonal contrasts, comprehensive social systems, and the vibrant community of 12,000 South Africans who have created support networks across the country. From annual camping weekends to homemade biltong, these expatriates maintain their cultural identity while adapting to Swedish life – embodying Roy's philosophy that "the grass is greener where you water it."
For anyone contemplating a similar journey, Roy's story offers both inspiration and practical wisdom. Success abroad requires thorough preparation, realistic expectations, and complete commitment to adaptation. The expatriate experience isn't simply about finding greener grass – it's about learning to cultivate your own garden in foreign soil.
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Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad, of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. I'm your host, warren Burley, an expat South African who, like many, followed the dream of working overseas. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles and joys of being a South African living overseas.
Speaker 1:Today we've got a fascinating guest, roy Bowden. Roy made his move from South Africa to Sweden and we're going to get into all of that the culture, the shocks, the challenges, the winds and what life is really like, trading the African sun for Nordic winters. We'll talk about why he left, what he's learned and whether Biltong can survive the Swedish winter. Let's get into it. Hey, roy, how are you doing? I'm well, thank you. Good man, roy, just give us a little bit of insight where you were born. And, yeah, just tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:I'm a banana boy, originally born in Durban and grew up in Port Shepston so from the coast.
Speaker 1:really, jesus, that's a big change from the coastal heat, and now you're in Sweden.
Speaker 2:It's a massive change, I can tell you.
Speaker 1:Okay, what inspired the move to Sweden?
Speaker 2:Actually my wife is Swedish. We met in France actually I've been abroad before and then went back to South Africa and then back again. I left South Africa in 1987, actually and went to the UK and then, after five years, decided to go and give it another go. And then, while I was in the UK, I traveled to France. I'm a boat builder originally, so I was in a marina in France actually, and I met my now wife. So we've known each other since 1991. And then we reconnected after 24 years actually of not seeing each other, and we got married nine years ago. So that's the reason for the move back to Sweden.
Speaker 2:Okay, that must have been quite a culture shock going to Sweden, it's vastly different to South Africa, of course, not only weather-wise but the entire culture. You know Swedish people are very stoic. They're very I can almost say regimented. You know they're very law-abiding citizens. You know they do their best not to offend people. You know it's very difficult to make friends. I mean, you know South Africans. I mean South Africans are incredibly friendly people. They help, they pitch up even with total strangers to help in any situation. You can rely on them. But in Sweden I found it's exactly the opposite. People are friendly to you but there's a limit. For example, you wouldn't just pitch up at somebody's house on a on a weekend, even if you consider them to be a friend. You definitely would not do that, whereas in South Africa you could easily go knock on somebody's door and say okay, you know, are we brine today or whatever?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's a, it's a, nevermind the weather. That's one thing, but the the culture is completely different. It really was a bit of a shock, actually.
Speaker 1:I've also heard that you've got to speak the language to be able to get into the country.
Speaker 2:No, not Sweden. Most Swedish people can actually speak English, so that's not really an issue. You get some that actually won't speak English, but mostly people are actually very friendly and absolutely speak English. But mostly people are actually very friendly and absolutely speak English, so you can get by without having to speak Swedish. But you know, in order to work efficiently and to be accepted, you really do need to be able to speak Swedish. And you know, I've been doing the Swedish for immigrants course for the last year or so now, so it's getting there and is the language quite difficult to learn.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know there are many words in Swedish that are actually the same as Afrikaans. Okay, but the structure of the sentence is completely backwards in terms of English. You know it's not the same at all. So it's actually a very difficult language to learn, you know, especially when you already speak three or four languages and then have to learn another one. It's you know it can be quite tricky actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think South Africans are quite. I mean, we pick up languages pretty quickly, I think, because of our background and stuff. I just want to go back a little bit and talk about your visa. What was the process like?
Speaker 2:Because I know you got dual citizenship, right, yeah, but you know, my dad was born in the UK, so I qualified for a British passport and, of course, when I came here in 2015, the UK was still part of the EU, so you had relative freedom of movement. You had absolute freedom of movement, actually, so I could come to Sweden and live in Sweden without a problem at all, without any visa, on the strength of a British passport. But subsequent to the Brexit arrangement, which came into effect in December 2020, everything changed, so it's been a bit of an uphill battle ever since then.
Speaker 1:So what visa are you on now? Are you on a spouse visa?
Speaker 2:No, I'm not on a visa. I came here because of the British passport, which I was allowed to do and live in Sweden and work in Sweden because it was part of the EU at the time general from the UK to formalize their stay in whichever country they're living in through application of, you know, for residence permits and that sort of thing which I didn't know about, right? You know I registered with everybody legally in Sweden, so, you know, I assumed that actually I was completely legal in Sweden, right, until we tried to travel in 2021. We went to Croatia, we went sailing and got stopped at the airport and told that I was illegally in Sweden. Oh lovely, it's been a bit of a. It's been a four-year battle now actually. But your wife is Swedish, right, you said my wife is Swedish. It counts for absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1:Okay, because I know, like a lot of countries, if you marry a citizen, that usually qualifies you to stay.
Speaker 2:It is like that in most other countries, but Sweden has actually played hardball, particularly with British citizens. Right, there have been many that have been forced to leave Sweden actually. Okay, it's a bit of a story behind that, so it's an ongoing battle actually, because the British government has now decided to get involved. You know, the Brexit agreement actually allows for people that live in any country in the EU to continue living in that country until such time as they qualify for permanent residence of that country, but Sweden doesn't recognize that, so they're not following the Brexit agreement actually.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they sound quite bitter with the whole Brexit thing. Yeah, brexit really threw a stone in the works, sure. So how are you navigating through that? Then I mean, do you see a light at the end of the tunnel, or is it quite a massive challenge?
Speaker 2:It's a bit tricky right now. We're a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place of whether we actually move out. You know, if we move back to the UK, for example, or back to South Africa or wherever we can do that, for I think three months is the minimum minimum and then my wife has the right to return with the spouse. Okay, if she lives outside of the EU for a period of time, I think it's three months, so we could do that. But you know you have to give up your job and you know you have a home and you have a car and you have animals, and you know it's real disruption. What are you doing for work? It's real disruption. What are you doing for work At the moment?
Speaker 2:Well, actually for the last nine years I run a factory that builds exhibition stands for a few key clients Volvo Defense, volvo Bus, volvo Truck, volvo Construction Equipment and a few others IFA electrical. We did Port of Gothenburg. You know we travel around the world actually building exhibition stands. We build a stand and dismantle and box it and then ship it to different locations around the world and then build the stand, you know, over like a week's period or 10 days, depending on how big the stand is and then dismantle after the show and bring it all back.
Speaker 1:Okay, that sounds quite interesting. And this whole citizenship process has that impacted your work at all, or is it just business as usual?
Speaker 2:It has in a way, because you, you know, the problem is people have been arrested coming back into sweden after being abroad because of this brexit thing. So I've been pretty lucky that I've. You know, if you have an application on the system, there's there's a loophole. So I have, I've had applications on the system for permanent residence and for permission to join spouse and what different different applications that I've had in work permits and things like that. Yeah, which sort of stops the bus a little bit, but it's still nerve-wracking, you know, because it depends who you get as a the customs official. Yeah, you know they, you could get a nasty one that says no, no, no, you can't be here, you have to go back to the UK. I mean, I've got nothing in the UK, there's nothing for me there. I would be landing with nothing ultimately and have to find a place to stay and no job and whatever.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously you've thought about this, but is it not easier on the South African passport?
Speaker 2:What to Sweden? Yeah, no, it's not Okay First. No, it's not Okay. First of all, you have to have a visa, which you know. The thing is, you can't apply for anything from inside Sweden. You have to be outside of Sweden to apply for anything. The saving grace for me has been the fact that I've been able to apply from inside Sweden on the Brexit arrangement, right, but even that's running out as an option now, so it's becoming more and more tricky actually, as we're getting along. But anyway, we have, we have contingency plans. You know it's uh, we never give up, as you know. Yeah, and how old are you?
Speaker 1:uh 62. Okay, so it's a bit of a curveball late in life, right you are very much so.
Speaker 2:That's, that's part of the problem. Luckily, you know, I'm fit and strong and healthy, so it's uh, you know there's yeah, that's not an issue. I'd pick up the cudgel wherever I go. I don't care. I, you know, I've always managed to pick it up and keep going everywhere that I've been in and I've been around all over the world actually yeah, and that's, that's a south african coming out.
Speaker 1:Huh, we uh yeah resilient. Tell me, uh, talking about all that, um, what's your take on the swedish approach to things like health care and education and that type of thing?
Speaker 2:As I said before, it's a very regulated country and you know they have systems in place that actually are really to be proud of. The healthcare system you know, comparatively is actually very good and of course it's totally free for for citizens. But of course you, you know you pay for it ultimately in taxation. But pretty much health care is free. Dentistry is not that you pay for, but the universities are and schools are absolutely free. So everything you need for school and everything you need for university is is on the plates. You can, you can and everything you need for university is on the plate. You can do whatever you want, study as long as you want, and go to any university you want, study any course that you want, and it's completely free.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know their tax rate is about the same as South Africa actually, comparatively. You know you've got your 25% pay as you earn sort of thing on your salary and then of course your VAT rate is like anywhere from 15% to 25% depending on what you're buying. So you know you end up paying about the same as what we paid in South Africa for tax, but your taxes get actually very well utilized. So you know that's the difference and you know I'm not knocking that, I mean it is what it is. I mean South Africa is it doesn't have the amount of taxpayers and you know they've got social responsibility, things to pay for above everything else. So you know it's a different paradigm. Basically, you know in Sweden they've got more taxpayers and you know, of course, a bigger pot to deal out and not that many population. I mean there's only 10 million people there.
Speaker 1:I guess you just want to see that your tax money is going somewhere, that's all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the main thing is that you know you can be sure that, you know they've got social responsibility, things on every aspect of life, you know, from from a child right through the range until you retire.
Speaker 2:You know, and they they try to maintain that people live in their own home as long as they possibly can, as opposed to, you know, ending up in a in an old age home. Of course they do have old age homes, but mostly that's for people that are, you know, either just don't have the means to have a home or can't look after themselves. But I mean my mother-in-law, for example. I mean, at 81 years old she lived alone in her own apartment and she had an assistant that used to pop around and make sure everything's okay. And of course my wife used to pop around and make sure everything's okay and of course my wife used to go around all the time and make sure that she had everything she needed and take her shopping if she needed to or whatever. But you know they try to maintain the independence of the individual right through life. So it's really from that aspect, you know it's an amazing place. Actually. It's Scandinavia all over, it's not just Sweden, it's actually the whole of Scandinavia is like that.
Speaker 1:And is it quite expensive there, like the cost of living compared to other countries?
Speaker 2:It's relative. You know the food has got a bit more expensive now the last few years but I think that's how everywhere that's happened like that. But it's pretty relative. I think you know the salaries are pretty good. The average salaries are generally quite good, even a truck driver, for example. They're really well paid, even bus drivers, pretty much any aspect of working life. The salaries are comparable. It is pretty relative. It can be a bit expensive, but it's the salaries make up for it, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And what's the best part about living in Sweden?
Speaker 2:The contrast. You know, and that's something that you don't see so much in South Africa. You know first of all, I have to say, my wife of course, but besides that, you know the weather contrast is just amazing. You know you go through the seasons In South Africa, living in Durban. You know you don't really see the season so much. You know the grass is pretty much always green.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the weather doesn't change so much. You get a bit more rain in summer than you do in winter up to, in summertime, 34, 35 degrees. You know we've had snow half a meter thick. You know we had to plow our road. We live in the forest actually. That's the blessing really of where we live and how we live. We live three kilometers off the road, on a dirt road, in the forest, absolutely in the forest, at the end of the road. So I mean there's nobody after us. You know we have our own private lake which is a 10-minute walk away, two lakes actually. And you know we've got dogs and we walk in the forest and it's just incredible.
Speaker 1:It really is Sounds like a slice of heaven, to be honest, they do, so what do you miss about South Africa?
Speaker 2:You know I'm a sailor I've been sailing all my life and uh, and a fisherman. You know, I grew up on the south coast. In fact, we ran a charter company in Port Shepston, shelley Beach. I took out, over a period of 16 years, thousands and thousands of thousands of people. We took out fishing. Yeah, so that's, that's a big thing for me. I miss the fishing, it's really. And the weather, of course, you know, the hot weather is it's it's hotter for longer in south africa, of course, than it is here. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, you can have. We've had, we've had like four months of good weather, you know. It's relatively good weather, sort of in summer, but we've also had two weeks of summer, you know, and then it's cold again. It's uh, it's relatively good weather, sort of in summer, but we've also had two weeks of summer, you know, and then it's cold again.
Speaker 1:It's uh, it's a bit uh tell me what's the food like over there, because you know south africa's the food is. You know, comparing to the rest of the world, I still think is the best. But what's it like over there?
Speaker 2:yeah, the food is, uh is also a bit of a culture shock really. I mean it's. You know you can't get a burrovoz roll, you can't get a bunny chow, yeah, yeah, we have to make it. I make my own biltong. Now there's a South African shop, actually not so far away from us, and they import things like Mrs Ball's chutney and marmat and you know a few different things that we know Eat some more. For example, you know that kind of thing that's from South Africa, provitas, that kind of thing, yeah, and they also make. They make bourrevoirs and biltong.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So one of the guys actually that works at a sausage factory here. We met him at a camp. You know we have a. We have a South African camp every year in Sweden. There are about 11 or 12,000 South Africans in in Sweden. That that's on the system. You know there's a Facebook group with South Africans living in Sweden. Yeah, anyway, we met this guy that works at the sausage factory here and he makes the biltong privately, biltong and boulevards and sells privately, mostly to South Africans actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we get that kind of thing and, as I say, I make my own biltong as well and, of course, you know food is available whatever you want. So you can make whatever you want. I mean, I make South African food. You know the bubutis and cottage pie and good old lamb curry and stuff like that. I'm a good cook, so I do it myself anyway. So I don't miss from that point of view. I can cook and I cook the way we always cooked. So, yeah, the food is good and it good and it's and it's plentiful and it's fresh. So there's no real problem there.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:A lot of it's important, of course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it sounds like the South African shops are making absolute fortune everywhere. They, they, they're just popping up everywhere and they of the.
Speaker 2:You know the number of people that are that buy from them. You know it's a concentrated group of South Africans that miss home and just want to. You know we've got such a different cultural group here. As I say, we have a camp every year. It's like a weekend camp in different locations in the country. That's organized by a very wonderful woman from Cape Town. She's a school teacher here here and she does the organizing, so she just puts it up on Facebook. Okay, we've got a camp coming up, you know wherever this year's one is in the first of August for the weekend. Yeah, and we all travel and we stay in a camp somewhere for the weekend and we just get together and we just party for the weekend. It's quite amazing actually. Okay.
Speaker 1:So I take it you keep in contact with a lot of the South Africans in that group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's quite a community. You know people help each other as well. You know if there's somebody in need, they always can post it on the group and somebody will pop up and help. So you know that's a bit of a saving grace, you know, especially for newbies that come here. You know there's a lot of students that come as well and come and study here, okay, and very often they need help and they put it on the group and you know people get together and they help wherever they can. It's amazing actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's what we kind of do. Hey, yeah. What advice would you give to South Africans looking to move to Sweden?
Speaker 2:Sweden is really. It's a tough place to actually. You know, if you have a niche occupation then it can be okay in terms of acceptance and realizing opportunity in Sweden, but it's a really tough place actually to move from South Africa to Sweden without any backup at all is actually very tough from South Africa to Sweden without any backup at all is actually very tough, so you know if anybody that does want to move from anywhere South African that wants to move to Sweden.
Speaker 2:You know you have to do a lot of background checking. Yeah, you know a lot is determined also where you're going to stay, because I mean, it's such a huge country, it's huge. I say huge, it's long. You, because I mean it's such a huge country, it's huge, I say huge, it's long. You know, and you've got one extreme to the other, you know if you've got to head down south in Malmo, from there all the way up to the Arctic Circle, basically, and you know you've got civilization to basic life, where you know survival is a real struggle. So, as I say, it depends what your niche is, so you can adapt, of course.
Speaker 2:But a lot of background checking to key down what you actually want to achieve by moving to Sweden, because that's the ultimate thing. What are you trying to achieve by moving to Sweden? Because that's the ultimate thing, yeah, yeah. What are you trying to achieve by moving to a foreign country? And you know, the further north you go, the less and less likely you are to find somebody that actually speaks Swedish to you. Sorry, that speaks English. Yeah, yeah, it's. Do your homework. I would say that's probably the key. Do your homework. What do you want to do? Where do your homework? I would say that's probably the key. Do your homework. What do you want to do? Where do you want to go? You know what are you trying to achieve and what resources do you have, because you know it can be without an income. It can be incredibly expensive actually to to move here and see if you can make it, for example.
Speaker 1:It's uh, that's, it's going to be tough yeah, okay, um, I have one final question for you. Um, yeah, is the grass greener on the other side?
Speaker 2:Yes and no. You know, it depends really how you land. If you land on your feet, it can be, and if you have backup it can be. But you know you have to accept that there are going to be things you're going to miss. There's no question about that, especially as a South African. There are things you're going to miss. So my key to that is actually you have to go in committed 100%, because otherwise it can end up a very sorrowful experience if you're not absolutely committed to move and adapt. Because that's the bottom line, I would say the grass can be greener on the other side as long as you're prepared to actually knuckle down and do what's required to make it greener. Grass is greener where you water it. Basically.
Speaker 1:Also. Sometimes there's that Also. Sometimes there's more shit on the grass. Eh, yeah, there is. Buy some chickens, yeah, Now, Roy. Thanks a lot for sharing your story, man, it's been awesome. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for the record, I was involved in preparing the boat and the sailor, jeff Hilton Barber, is quite relatively unknown actually, but the first blind man to sail from Durban in South Africa to Fremantle in Australia, absolutely alone. Wow, look him up and you'll see, you'll read about it. My name's listed there as one of the people that helped. It was a team of us. Of course I wasn't alone, but I refitted his boat and prepared him and sail trained with him and then sent him off from Durban and then I flew over to Australia and got on the boat and sailed in with him the last several miles, several hundred miles actually, back in through the shipping lanes into Australia. But that's my claim to fame anyway. Wow, that's amazing. My wife's saying goodbye as well. Okay, bye.
Speaker 2:We should have had her on. Yes, she's right here.
Speaker 1:Hi, hi, Hi. How are you doing?
Speaker 3:No, I'm just fine, are you?
Speaker 1:I'm very, very well, yeah, good, I'm interested to hear some Swedish.
Speaker 3:Okay, hurraår du idag.
Speaker 1:Sounds a lot like that, eh, yeah.
Speaker 2:How are you today? Hur mår du idag?
Speaker 3:Hur mår du idag? How are you doing today? Hur mår du idag?
Speaker 1:So if we talk Afrikaans to you, are you able to understand it?
Speaker 3:Ja, because it's like a thing, similar things. It's like like like näsa, arm, hand, mull öra, it's like hand and ear. When Roy was speaking Afrikaans to a friend in South Africa, I just nodded Like yeah, yeah, do you understand? Yeah, it's like Swedish. Oh, wow, that's like Swedish.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's very interesting. Yeah, thanks, thanks again, and we look forward to an update. If you're eager to explore more stories of South Africans abroad, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a moment For exclusive updates, discussions and a chance to connect with fellow listeners. Be sure to join our vibrant community on Facebook. Just search discussions and a chance to connect with fellow listeners. Be sure to join our vibrant community on facebook. Just search for south africans abroad podcast and become part of the conversation there. You'll find additional content, behind the scenes insights and an easy way to access all your favorite episodes. Roy, thanks again for joining us. It's been awesome having you on and to all our listeners, check you tuesday and if you love what we're doing here and want to support our show, head over to saabroadpodcastcom that's saabroadpodcastcom and become a sponsor so we can keep sharing these amazing stories.
