South Africans Abroad
A show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode, we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones, or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat, and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles, and joys of being a South African living overseas.
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South Africans Abroad
Hayley Reichert: Champion of Change from South Africa to the UK
Journey with us as we uncover the remarkable story of Hayley Reichert, a dedicated South African living in England. What drove her to leave her homeland for the UK? And more importantly, what sparked her fierce passion for advocating change from across the seas? Listen as Hayley recounts the transformation from a mere adventurer to a relentless advocate involved with the DA abroad, overseas voting, and key legislative lobbying efforts. Her narrative of aiding South Africans stranded during the pandemic and her vision of returning to contribute directly is both inspiring and a testament to the power of dedicated individuals.
But that's not all—we tackle the tough challenges of promoting change in South Africa amidst widespread apathy and negative news. Hear about the entrepreneurial spirit alive in communities like Soweto and the initiatives aiming to bridge gaps between South African expatriates and local businesses. We also delve into the emotional tales of repatriation during global crises, the unyielding efforts to reunite families, and the critical role of networking. The episode concludes with a hopeful outlook, envisioning a united and prosperous South Africa driven by education, job readiness, and healing racial divides. Don't miss this compelling episode packed with stories of resilience, connection, and hope.
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Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad, of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. I'm your host, warren Burley, an expat South African who, like many, followed the dream of working overseas. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles and joys of being a South African living overseas.
Speaker 1:We have an inspiring guest joining us today Hayley Rayhart. Hayley is a remarkable South African who made her way to England, but her heart and soul remain deeply connected to her homeland. She's an unwavering advocate for driving positive change in South Africa, tirelessly encouraging South Africans abroad to use their talents and resources to uplift the country. Hayley is a proud force behind Project Watershed, an initiative that allows South Africans to contribute towards building a more prosperous and vibrant South Africa. Get ready for an enlightening conversation about her journey mission and the incredible work she's doing to make a difference. Hayley, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Hi Warren, I'm great thanks. How are you?
Speaker 1:Good Hayley, can you share your journey from South Africa to England and what motivated the move?
Speaker 2:I've been in London now for 16 years. It's gone really quickly. So I moved over. I was pregnant, newly married. The plan was to come over for, say, five years. My ex would have come over on a spousal visa, do the work travel thing, get the passport and then return back to SA and settle down and have a family. But that didn't pan out. That way Life never does. And yeah, so it wasn't. You know, I never left SA because of the state of the country.
Speaker 2:It was more just. I have a British passport we wanted to explore. My ex's parents were over here and I've got extended family over here. So yeah, it was just young and why not? And then it was after being here for a few years, because I was still busy studying as well through UNISA, and then I had been over here for, I think, about two or three years and I was sort of questioning what is my purpose in life and went to on Facebook to go and find some South African friends, came across this group that called themselves the BA abroad and this other chap. They were holding a protest outside the South Africa High Commission about the no to secrecy bill. So I just thought, oh, what a great way to go and make some South African friends, didn't think anything about the politics involved and that was my kind of turning moment, or light bulb or aha moment, and literally that was December 2011. And since then I've just been very much involved with the global South African community.
Speaker 1:So tell me what inspired you to become an advocate for driving change in South Africa. What brought that on?
Speaker 2:I think through. So when I got involved with the DA abroad and so that was the end of 2011, going into 2012. And then, just learning about overseas voting got involved in the 2014 elections out-opened overseas voting. Got involved in the 2014 elections, I initiated the loss of citizenship campaign, which the DA it's taken 10 years it's still not over the line yet, but it will hopefully be by the end of this year which will change the legislation about people losing their citizenship when they acquire foreign citizenship.
Speaker 2:And I've just noticed through all the stuff that I've done. You know, in the early years, it was just a case of, instead of being someone standing around the bar complaining that South Africa is just going to become another Zimbabwe, I was like, well, I am someone that can do something and I have a voice and I seem to have this skill of networking. And, yeah, just through all the bits and bobs that I got involved with the UK-based mid-bank SA charity, golf Day, the Chamber of Commerce I ended up resigning from the DA abroad. I ended up over the last four years liaising with a number of opposition party leaders, going back home, going into townships and things, and I've just dabbled through all sorts of you know, when Ramaphosa closed South African airspace back in 2020, I started the well. We called it a home away from home for those stranded abroad, which was about 22,000 people. We dealt with all sorts of situations and then we also had people stuck in South Africa. So with Project Lisa, like today, say that we had to actually lobby and straighten home estates with urgent high court action and through all these little bits and pieces that I've just done, I mean random things that I've done helping get South Africans out of Ukraine, helping our students in Russia and mainly over the last four years, and engaging with South Africans.
Speaker 2:I do a lot of home affairs. A lot of people come to me for home affairs issues as well, and I do all of this off my own back. I don't run a business off of this, and it's all the little bits that I've learned and picked up on has just made me realize everything. The majority, the overwhelming majority, of South Africans abroad love South Africa, miss South Africa, would like to see it succeed. Um, a lot of them would like to move back or at least know that when they go home on holidays it's, you know, safer and better, better for family and friends back home.
Speaker 2:So I, my long-term goal is to move back home and I thought well, instead of me just trying to do my little bit, why don't I try to rope everybody in and get lots of people all contributing in different ways? And that's why, with Operation Watershed, it's a holistic thing, because if I just did one charity or one civic thing, focusing on one particular element, I'd reach a certain number of people, but I wouldn't reach everyone abroad. So my goal is to try and reach as many of the one plus million abroad and trying to have something for everyone, whether it is IEC voting related matters, whether it's lobbying and advocacy, whether it's business and entrepreneurship or civic and charity or protecting independent media. There's a whole host of things that I'm talking to people about setting projects up for and, at the end of the day, every single one of us has something we can contribute.
Speaker 2:It might be five minutes a week, it might be an hour a week, it might be ad hoc, but every single one of us can and a lot of people want to contribute. They just don't know how and they feel frustrated and they feel like, well, what's my you know, what's my one little bit going to actually do and what's my one little bit going to actually do. And when I racked up all the stuff that I've done and I explain, I'm not a high-flying CEO or corporate person, I'm not a career politician, I am just an ordinary South African I've managed to do all of this stuff. I've managed to network and help. You know now, it certainly hasn't been on my own. It's been, you know, involving a lot of other people as well, but together we can drive significant impact and change on the ground where it's needed most back home.
Speaker 1:So a hell of a lot of questions. After all that, my first question is do you have a full-time job and you're doing this on the side, or is this your full-time job?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm a mortgage and protection advisor here in the UK. A lot of my clients are South Africans, which is great. South Africans love supporting each other, so always word of mouth referrals. So, yeah, that's what pays the bills. And then I've also set up a staffer works which is a business directory for the suffragans here in the uk.
Speaker 2:Um, again, could be like supporting each other um and not everyone is interested in like the stuff back home, you know, but people still want to be part of the certain community here, yeah, and then, um, yeah, so the operation watershed and and all of the core stuff and stuff that I do is basically the reason why I don't sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to say where do you get time for all that?
Speaker 2:I'm fortunate. I work, I'm self-employed, but I registered under a company and my boss is actually South African. So as long as I'm placing business, as long as I'm doing what I need to do, I'm quite fortunate that I can squeeze in a call here, an email there to make things happen.
Speaker 1:Let's just talk about your interest in helping people that have lost their citizenship, because I, for one, have lost my citizenship.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how are you helping there and how do you expect change to happen?
Speaker 2:So it's just something that I noticed in the lead up to the 2014 elections. So you couldn't register online. You had to go into your nearest foreign mission to go register and so many people were emailing us saying I went to go register, I've been told I've lost my citizenship. So I did some homework, put it forward as a DA broad campaign. They took it to the legal team, they took it to the constitutional court and lost twice. It was 2018 and 2021.
Speaker 2:And it got put on a bit of a back burner because of the 2016 municipal elections. But then they took it to the Supreme Court of Appeal in February I think it was of last year. The Supreme Court of Appeal ruled in the DA's favour middle of last year and we thought that was done and dusted. But we're now waiting for the Constitutional Court to approve the SCA's ruling. There was some movement on it in March. Sorry, but apparently it's literally just administrative and I have been told that home SCAs aren't going to be fighting the issue. So unfortunately it is just an administrative. We just have to sit and wait, but hopefully at some point in the next few months it will be over the line and then what should happen is that Section 6-1-A, which is the piece of legislation where it says that if you are 18 or older and you formally and voluntarily apply for a foreign citizenship without getting the retention letter to keep you South African, you automatically lose your South African.
Speaker 2:So once that falls away, then there is currently you know so the current way to get your citizenship back. There is reinstatement. However, you would have, under current rules, you'd have to move back to South Africa either for 12 consecutive months if you were born there, or for five years if you were not born there, and you'd have to prove that and then apply. So that would fall away. The rules have changed and administrative submission papers and and you can reclaim your citizenship. Obviously, not everyone can, because some countries don't allow dual, multiple citizenship, and so it would only be for those two countries that where they are happy for you to have another, another citizenship.
Speaker 2:But I find you know it's the guys that have lost their citizenship that I find are like, actually the most passionate and they're the most angry that they haven't been able to vote. So hopefully, by that, as well as some electoral lobbying for more voting stations, online voting being able to use, once this piece of legislation is dealt with. Then I want to lobby for people to be able to use a passport or an ID, because no one uses an ID book outside of South Africa. So there would have been so many more people who have their passports but didn't have an ID book who could have voted in the selection. So it's all just little steps to try and drive that change, drive the engagement.
Speaker 2:But I don't want to just have you know nothing gets done for the next five years and then suddenly we pop up and say, hey, everyone register. You know it's building for me. It's building for me. It's important to get people involved to see the impact that their little bit of difference is making and hopefully try and massively increase the number of overseas voters in future elections.
Speaker 1:I was following the election, obviously on Facebook and things like that, and I noticed a lot more people standing in lines, especially in the UK, this year compared to previous years. Do you think you had something to do with that?
Speaker 2:From the feedback that a lot of people have said.
Speaker 2:A lot of people have come back to me and said that they wouldn't have known about it or they wouldn't have bothered voting if it wasn't for some of the content that I was putting out.
Speaker 2:So I'm really grateful that I have had some impact in increasing the numbers and it's, you know, a lot of the, a lot of a lot of the communication tends to happen on the South African Facebook groups and most South African Facebook admins do not allow politics or charity-related posts. So I think you know I strategically have gone the civic route and it's paid off, because if I was still part of the DA board or if I was part of any other party, we would not have had, you know, they wouldn't have been able to post on those groups, they wouldn't have been able to reach people, so they would have been limited, whereas a lot of the groups and I was very surprised they actually allowed my posts. You know they actually published my posts and one of the biggest groups actually put at the start of the year. They said we will only allow Haley posting about the elections, which I was so grateful for that to be able to reach more people.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's great. So what are some of the biggest challenges you faced while promoting change?
Speaker 2:I think apathy is probably the biggest one. People think that the problems are insurmountable and, yes, there's a lot of work that needs to be done, but when I try to explain to people, there's nothing in South Africa that is completely broken and I think we're just bombarded with negative news all the time. A lot of people have just switched off, they've just got a negative mindset and they don't actually see. And this is why it's so important for me to be doing these trips, to be going back home on the ground and sharing. You know, going into Soweto, mlazi, mittels Plain, all these kind of places, to actually, you know, when I was in Soweto now, just before the elections, when I went in with Ayanda from Baldwin South Africa, which is Musume Mani's party, and this group I'm not kidding when they were literally shouting at her saying we don't want government grants, we want jobs, we have community projects that we want to do, we want to improve our standard of living, and they, you know, they showed us around what they're trying to do in their community. Um, so, you know, I think there's a sort of mentality which I find from substance abroad, which is very much a they, their mentality, um, you know, they are still voting for the ruling party. They this, they that, and you know it's almost like, oh, they just going to sit on grants and not do anything. But when you're actually on the ground you know.
Speaker 2:And then, after I was with Ayanda, I went with a guy called Didi Alcox. His parents were activists back in the day and he's done a lot to grow the township economy. So he's got a book called Casinomics. So I listened to his book on Audible back in December, contacted him. He showed me around and then he was actually here in London for the business conference just before we voted. And I'm now through that because there's another speaker. We're actually setting up a project for South Africans abroad to invest in businesses.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of businesses in South Africa where if they go to a normal mainstream lender or bank they can't get loans to grow their business. And while I was in Soweto they were showing me literally every single street, every second or third house there's a business running. You know we went to a bakery where a guy had taken his retirement and he was to offer his pension and started a bakery out of his garage. He sells 300 loads a day. His wife has now started a bakery on the other side of town there's a young lady who was 16. She's 20 now. She employs 10 staff and it's all you know. Hair and nail extensions, nails and hair extensions and all that kind of stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:And they went and showed me a whole lot of businesses and I said, is this all cash on hand? And they said no, they have all these apps for payment. So there's a big misconception that it's all cash in hand stuff. They're not paying taxes, but actually that's not the truth. So I just see, you know, that trip was really insightful because there is so much potential in the country and South Africa is known internationally for our, you know, we have such a strong entrepreneurial skill set.
Speaker 2:So for me, it's getting the South Africans abroad, particularly through this one project that we're going to be launching. It's not just, you know, charitable giving abroad, particularly through this one project that we're going to be launching. It's not just, you know, charitable giving. You know you're not just throwing your money into a pot and hoping it has some impact. It's investing, buying shares in companies and helping them to protect their jobs, to grow jobs, and things like that.
Speaker 2:So I think, yeah, for me it's a huge challenge to change people's perceptions. And also on the voting side, there's a huge gap between the civics, ordinary citizens, and the politicians. And by going and engaging and spending time personally with all these political leaders, you know and you know I'm sitting in Herman Mishalba's house and you know going into townships and that with them to try and bring more of a human side, because we often kind of put politicians up on a pedestal and in a negative way, you know, like they're up on the ivory tower and almost see them as like robots in a way. So yeah, for me it's really important to bridge that gap between us and our politicians as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what do you see as the most critical areas that need attention in South Africa?
Speaker 2:So I think, in terms of protecting our democracy, we need to protect the IEC. So apparently, the IEC are massively underfunded. They've been underfunded for a number of years and there's more cuts to come. So one project that I would like to set up, sooner rather than later, is lobbying for more funding for the 2026 local elections and also funding for the 29 elections to make sure that they have sufficient funding to run. I mean, it's a massive operation. I don't think people actually realize what goes into running it and then and also making sure it stays independent. You know it is a free and fair election to protect our democracy.
Speaker 2:Voter education is a massive need and you know, on the voter education, I want to take it a step further. So a lot of the civic groups in South Africa get corporate funding. They can't be seen to be leaning any, which way. They can only do a certain amount of the core civics of how to register why. You know why you should vote, that kind of thing. But we need to go a step further to bridge the gap. So if you think about the majority who are on these grants that don't have access to data, they don't, you know. They're not like, actually, we can just hop onto a website and read a manifesto. I find even people who can access manifestos don't bother reading them. You know how do you engage with party representatives in your area. What questions should you be asking? What critical thinking skills do you need to be able to consider and work out? How do I identify which party I'm going to vote for? Because people tend to vote blindly For a populist. They vote for a person rather than understanding what the party is about.
Speaker 1:Is that got to do with lack of information?
Speaker 2:Yeah, lack of information, lack of access to info. And again last year I went into Mlazi in Durban with Non-Kunoleko, who was the Ryzen Zanzi KZN chairperson, and it's also just understanding the cost involved. So, again, going back to what I said earlier, with regards to those at boards, if you're having that they mentality like they're still voting for the party, like they deserve what they get, kind of thing, really understanding the challenges in reaching these people, and a lot of the guys that I talk to in townships say we're hurtful of the ANC but we don't know who else to vote for. So building knowledge, education and building trust and I see that as a really core element and that's a huge, huge thing to try and tackle. So when we went into Amlazi, you know we went in. So there's another volunteer, myself and Nonko Lelikos. We went in with an ex-cop as private security, so there's a cost attached to that. They took in food. You know these guys are unemployed, so you know you need a draw card to get them to come and listen to you. So they took it like burger, individual burger and chips. There's a cost to that.
Speaker 2:When I was at Mashaba's house last year, michael Beaumont said to me it costs between 100 to 150 rand per person per outreach. You know, and if you've realized in marketing, you know you need to try and have multiple touch points to reach somebody, you know. So it might be a couple of in-person. It might be a couple of in-person, it might be radio advertising. So I went with Herman Machado by my last day on this trip to go and unveil this massive billboard that he had on the M1 between Zobig and Soweto and I asked him how much he spent and he said he spent 120 million rand on this year's campaign and he got 1% of the vote. So you have to understand just how much it costs. And it's not just about the TV adverts, it's the grassroots being on the ground, being visible in the communities.
Speaker 2:So for me it's a case of if South Africans abroad want to see change, they can get involved. There's two elements there's human capital and financial capital. So human capital, with lobbying projects you know they might've had businesses in South Africa, they understand the red tape about investments and stuff they can get involved with a bit of research. Or you know there's lots of human capital types of ways that people can get involved. And then on the financial side, if you know, they say there's a million. I think that there's probably more than that. I think there's a million. I think that there's probably more than that. I think there's closer to 2 million South Africans abroad.
Speaker 2:But let's go with a million. Let's say, just in the UK alone, if we can take 10,000 people each giving £5 a month, and we can replicate that across the top 10 countries where there's loads of South Africans, that could be a million rand just from the UK, it could be a million dollars, it could be a million. I mean, sorry, a million rand coming from the UK, a million rand coming from America or wherever you know. And if we had, let's say, 10 million rand per month coming in from South Africans abroad, you know, five pounds for a lot of people is fairly doable. You know, I understand, not everyone has spare money, particularly in the cost of living crisis that we're in, but for a lot of people. And what I want to do is I want it to be very specific. So, unlike a normal charity where you just throw your money into a pot, you know you send direct debit or make a donation, I want it to be very specific. So how I'm setting this up is, if you are wanting to contribute towards the lobbying, the court case for online voting, then that's where your money is going to go to. You know, I want to be very specific so people know where exactly where their money is going and being very transparent. I think the charity sector you know, npo sector has quite a bad rep of people not really you know how much of my one pound is actually going to where it needs to be and so, yeah, I'm wanting to really make sure that it's. You know, every project that we run is very transparent and accountable and, yeah, I just feel like there's so many of us abroad and the majority of people I come across love Miss SA and I just feel like we really can make a significant impact.
Speaker 2:I don't know for sure how much that loss of citizenship campaign cost. I've been told loosely that it cost the DA more than a million rand. So a lot of people say, oh, the ANC is screwed up. This party or that party must do something about it. So I say, well, are you a member of that party? Do you donate to that party?
Speaker 2:And most people turn around and say, no, I don't want to be associated to a party or politicians. I'd rather give my money to charity. So I explain to them. It's like putting a plaster on an infection You're giving temporary release but you're not actually dealing with the cause of it. You know you feel warm and cushy inside that you've maybe fed someone for a week Great, but then what?
Speaker 2:So yeah, for me it is about making sure that these projects are tangible and sustainable and so that people and again it's about buying, building that trust with the South and the broad. You know people give small amounts that they could afford to lose, if you know, but it's, it's they're giving small amounts collectively. That all adds up, then they can see that the difference that they're lots of small amounts makes. And then to try and rinse and repeat and and grow the trust and and grow them seeing what that difference can make and again, building all towards 2029 and 2034, because we know the results of the overseas vote and if we can massively increase the number of overseas voters by doing all of these things, by getting people's buy-in to see actually the country isn't broken, we can actually turn this around and then hopefully we can get more people voting in the future elections.
Speaker 1:Yeah, small change makes a big difference, right. Yeah, the biggest problem with giving to charity and I know firsthand, especially in the States you know there's a lot of scams, so people are always worried. As soon as someone says, can you give, they're going like well, I've been scammed so many times and I mean talking from personal experience, you know. So, you know. So I think the way you're doing it is good. Let's just change direction here a little bit. Can you share a success story or proud moment from your work with Project Watershed?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you have many.
Speaker 2:I've never done that before. So Operation Watershed you know I still need to get it registered, but I mean, it's really just a combination of all the stuff that's kind of led me to this point. I think so during the repatriation we had quite a few tragic and emotional cases. So you know, one of them was getting a foreign national. So Africa wouldn't allow. When they started allowing repatriation they wouldn't allow foreign nationals in. We had to fight them to allow permanent residents, people with permanent residency, in.
Speaker 2:And there was a case of a mom working in the Netherlands whose teenage son was knocked off a motorbike and killed. So fighting to get her home, fighting to get people out of the mandatory quarantine. There was another chap who was a foreign national. He was a chef on a ship came past Cape Town. We got a colleague off, couldn't get him off. Via various other people that I'd helped, they put me in touch with the HR for this particular cruise line and as soon as this guy phoned me I just burst into tears. So it was his wife and toddler were in a car accident in Johannesburg and I'd spoken to his wife because his wife had contacted me to try and get her husband home and because he was in and out of the country, he'd never done his permanent residency and we I literally when I say I didn't sleep and I cried for four days straight, I'm not kidding we knew that we were sending him home to switch off the life support of his wife and child, but we couldn't tell him that until he got there. So you know things like that, things like, you know, reuniting people, you know, I think, helping. There was a mom that had moved here but her kids are still back in their stay Going. You know again, just having these networks, like connecting with the British High Commissioner, you know, to get them because they were obviously prioritising British citizens and the study was here on a visa and we said, well, you can't separate youngsters from their mother, high-risk pregnancy.
Speaker 2:We managed to get back to the UK Helping get people out of Ukraine. I mean, we were literally up until 30 o'clock at night crying our eyes out, stressing because we couldn't get hold of people and our government, although they were running around telling the media back home that they had this list of 200 people. I was contacted, so the invasion was on the Thursday. I spoke to the ambassador there on the Friday. He called me Hopper 7, my time on the Saturday morning saying please can you help us find people?
Speaker 2:And lots of politicking behind the scenes, but yeah, managing to help get people across the borders, getting South Africans in the neighboring countries to go to the border to pick them up and open their homes. And I had one chap, single income, his mom's a domestic worker, he was there on a bursary and he was on the train heading towards Poland and he said I have no idea how I'm going to get home. And I said you just worry about getting yourself over that border, we'll get you home. So yeah, there's been so many, you know, real emotional, like human circumstances that you know and that's why I do this. You know, I think quite often you know, with governments it tends to just be they're just numbers, they don't realize the impact of people's lives.
Speaker 2:So, I think that human touch and that human impact is what drives me to do what I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's actually amazing to know that there's people like you that are actually trying to make change and actually doing something about it, because, like a lot of people say, oh, I wish I could do something, you know, maybe I should do this, and then they never do it. You know, and it's quite amazing that you're actually doing it and I want to thank you from all the people you know abroad as well as at home, for what you're doing. It's truly amazing. Tell me, hayley. One last question what are your hopes and visions for the future of South Africa and how do you see your role in achieving that?
Speaker 2:Sure, I would love to see a country where the racial issues don't feature and a lot of and again coming to, because the majority of South Africans abroad are white. There's quite a large diaspora of black South Africans here as well, and Indian and others, but the majority is white and it's very much this. When I speak to white South Africans abroad, it's very much this negative. Oh, it's been 50 years, like they need to get over it. But then when I and I distinctly recall a conversation I had with I'm going back about 10 years ago I was chatting to some well-educated South Africans abroad and they said to me this was during the Zuma years and they were explaining that they still vote A and C, even if they, you know, agreed that Zuma wasn't great for the country or the party. But they went further to explain that it was very much an emotional vote because they were youngsters when their parents were harassed for the dawn pass in the street or their houses were raided. And I've, you know, for me it's trying to get people to understand the emotional damage and emotional and psychological hurt is going to take decades. Um, you know, and it's. We can't just be flippant about it. Um, we can't. And again why I'm going into townships and engaging with people from all different walks of life to try and hopefully bridge that gap a little bit.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously, the socioeconomic situation. I think you know, obviously, this election. I'm chuffed with the results of this election. It's going to be a bumpy five years ahead, but for me, operation Watershed is an organization that needs to mirror what's happening in the political landscape in the country, because we need to build a strong civic organization. We need to hold the politicians whoever those politicians are, whatever party they're from, we have to hold them to account on setting up businesses, on access to entrepreneurship programs and things. To grow our economy is really key as well. To be able to provide people with jobs, training, making people job ready, is really important. Education as well. Obviously, there's crime and all the rest of it off the back of that, but I think truly healing and growing our economy and holding politicians to account is a good place to start.
Speaker 1:Great, great answer, hayley. Is there some way people can get a hold of your website or anything if they want to help out and donate money and stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the website is operationwatershadecom. It's lacking in content at the moment, while I'm in this transition phase from voting to more civic-related matters, but all my social media handles, so, whether it's LinkedIn, facebook, instagram, wherever TikTok, everything is Safa Hayley, so S-A-F-A-H-A-Y-L-E-Y.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was amazing catching up with you and I really want to speak to you again in a couple of months and see how things are progressing. But thank you for the chat.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
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