South Africans Abroad
A show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode, we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones, or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat, and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles, and joys of being a South African living overseas.
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South Africans Abroad
TANIA PLAKONOURIS: A JOURNEY OF RESILIENCE AND UBUNTU IN PORTUGAL
Embarking on a journey that would transform their lives, Tania Plakonouris and her family waved goodbye to the familiar landscapes of South Africa for the quaint, uncharted territories of central Portugal. As Tania shares her family's extraordinary adventure, we're reminded of the incredible courage it takes to uproot one's life in pursuit of new beginnings. Imagine leaving behind a successful career, only to find yourself embracing the simplicity of housekeeping or the craft of carpentry—Tania's narrative is a moving chronicle of humility and resilience that speaks to the heart of every listener.
Throughout our conversation with Tania, we uncover the rich tapestry of experiences that come with settling into a new culture—from the late-night social buzz that contrasts the early sunsets of their former home, to the chilly European winters that test their warm African blood. These stories of adaptation are the threads that weave together the vibrant community of South Africans in Portugal, bound by the spirit of 'Ubuntu' and the shared pursuit of a fulfilling expat life. As Tania and her family continue to navigate this beautiful yet challenging landscape, their journey serves as an awe-inspiring blueprint for resilience, community, and the eternal quest for home.
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Welcome back to South Africans Abroad, a show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. Triumphs of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad.
Warren Burley:I'm your host, warren Burley, an expat South African who, like many, followed the dream of working overseas. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles and joys of being a South African living overseas. Meet Tanya Plakonis, a remarkable South African woman who embarked on a transformative journey from the vibrant streets of South Africa to the picturesque landscapes of Portugal. With her infectious passion for life and unwavering spirit, she's not only embraced a new culture, but also woven her unique South African identity into the tapestry of her adopted homeland. Tania, how are you doing?
Tania plakonouris:I'm fine, that's a wonderful introduction, thank you.
Warren Burley:Tania do you just want to introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about you?
Tania plakonouris:So, gosh, where do we start? So, yes, I am Tanya Plakonoris, so you can hear a Greek surname. My dad-in-law is Greek, married for many, many years but never, never ventured into thinking that Europe would be our home. Currently, we are a family of four. So I am married to Ryan and I have two incredible daughters, 17 and 11, ray Vida and Mila Plakonoris. Yeah, Brilliant.
Warren Burley:Okay, let's just go back to the moment you decided to move to Portugal. What inspired your decision to leave South Africa and start a new chapter in Portugal?
Tania plakonouris:We had been speaking about going to go and experience something different for many, many years. Ryan and I have traveled quite a bit and we've lived up in East Africa, for a few years living in Kenya. Our hospitality skills or our hospitality careers gave us the opportunity to go and live in different parts of Africa. So it wasn't new leaving South Africa, but always knowing that there was home back at home. And what maybe started the little itch to go and create another home somewhere else was the cliche of kids and opportunity. We were raising two daughters and we were thinking, oh sure, but where do we see the girls in the future? Where do we see opportunity, the girls in the future, where do we see opportunity? Where do we see open channels of opportunity to travel or learning different cultures or different abilities, skills?
Tania plakonouris:And I had started the process of applying for a Portuguese passport in 2015, 2016,. Passport in 2015, 2016,. Because my parents are Portuguese, but I was born in SA and I had an SA passport. I have an SA passport and my mother was born in Mozambique and my father in Madeira, but they started new lives at a very young age in South Africa. Yeah, so I started the process of applying for my passport and it took a few years, with up and down going to Cape Town, and things started going a little bit challenged for us in South Africa once COVID hit because of our hospitality backgrounds. So, as we all know, hospitality came to a standstill Ryan is a photographer and also operations in hotel management and so work dwindled. Maybe that also gave us a little bit of a push and a shove to start thinking of new opportunities, not only for our children but for us too. Our passports came along and, yeah, we found ourselves a few years later, a year into, living in Portugal.
Warren Burley:Okay. So what are you doing now, you and your husband? Are you doing the same thing you were doing in South Africa?
Tania plakonouris:No good question. And I had to eat humble pie and I've started all over again. So I was a general manager, I was earning a good salary in South Africa. I had, you know, climbed the ladder of experience and so, back in SA, I was delegating, so to speak. I am now a housekeeper in in Portugal.
Warren Burley:So I'm back to manual labor look, this is a story we hear with everybody.
Tania plakonouris:I mean, that's the first thing you do eat humble pie when you move right we yeah, we eat humble pie, but I, the South Africans, are not scared, and I I've picked this up so quickly here too is that we, as South Africans, are not afraid to work at labour, and so Ryan is in construction. So Portugal does have a shortage of skills in terms of building, carpentry, hand skills, and so he was very quick to be grabbed, and so he does carpentry. He's doing carpentry work and I'm working in a guest house.
Warren Burley:Okay, and where about? In Portugal, are you?
Tania plakonouris:We decided to stay away from the cities. We're not city people, we're rural people. So we live in the most beautiful part of Portugal called Goiás. Well, I say it's the most beautiful part, okay, but it's central Portugal. So we're about 45 minutes from the city of Coimbra, which is a big university capital, and we live in the mountains. We live next to the Ceira River and very much adventure, tourism, ecotourism right up our alley, and we live in a little town that doesn't have more than two and a half thousand people living in it.
Warren Burley:Okay, wow, that's a big change.
Tania plakonouris:Very big.
Warren Burley:Being so remote in that, what logistical challenges did you have like with finding housing and work and stuff, Salary adjustment, living in central rural parts versus Lisbon and Porto?
Tania plakonouris:logistical challenges did you have like with finding housing and work and stuff, salary adjustment, living in central rural parts versus lisbon and porto? Um, there's a big. There's a big change in salary expectation. Housing is very, very hard to find because if you do come to portugal, it's the most beautiful country, but you do see hardship and you do see a lot of homes that have been neglected or totally forgotten. So there's house after house after house it's just being left, and from understanding what's happened is people have left the areas because of lack of work or because of lack of opportunity COVID was a big knock for Portugal, and anywhere else actually and so you do find a lot of homes that are not actually habitable, and so there is big opportunity to come here and buy a house that is just four walls and you have to do a big restoration project, but we are finding that the prices are extremely exorbitant because the locals know that there are these expats coming in and willing to pay a lot of money for nothing.
Tania plakonouris:So you do find that challenge, but once you start becoming part of the local community, you start embracing the culture. You don't see yourself as an outside. I do speak Portuguese, so that has been a massive help. So you start being accepted. People start telling you oh no, go to this person. Oh no, go there. Yeah, go there, go there, go there. And we have managed to find a house. Um, that is honestly nothing, but it's land and it there is a footprint and there are. There is um opportunity to do a restoration and that's what we've done, and so we've built or buying, or bought a house, and now we're building it and we're restoring it with the rest of my family.
Warren Burley:Oh nice, okay, Um, speaking of family, so is the rest of your family moving over there as well?
Tania plakonouris:Yes, so when we started chatting about moving, um, um, and we're quite a unique family, we are 11 people. So I love my in-laws which I don't know if it's an unusual thing, but granny and grandpa are like my parents, my in-laws, and then my mom. Unfortunately, my dad passed away 12 years ago, so it's just my mom. Fortunately, my dad passed away 12 years ago, so it's just my mom. And then my in-laws, my sister-in-law, Kim and her husband, France, and their two children. So we came for supper the one night back in South Africa and we said we're going to Portugal and that kind of just triggered the whole move or the opportunity to create a platform for us to all possibly start a new life. So, a year into Portugal and our whole direct family is with us and we bought the land together. And Kim, my sister-in-law, has a Greek passport, so this is how she got into the EU. You know game and we're all here, and naturally, my dad-in-law, Aiki, who's Greek, has got an EU passport as well. So this is where we found ourselves all together.
Warren Burley:All right, so let's just talk about the visa process, because it sounded like it was pretty an easy process for you, was there?
Tania plakonouris:any challenges? Yes, so there is. The red tape here in Portugal is hard, yeah. So we have three South Africans in the family, so mom-in-law, brother-in-law and husband, and they're all on South African passports. So we had to bring them through I talked about them as luggage, but they know what I'm talking about. We had to deal with the restrictions of the passport through family passport us being Portuguese and Greek and they came through with a Schengen visa and once we were all here, we started the process of applying for a family re-migration visa, which is an Article 15 family visa, and now they all have resident permits to live here for three to five years and only after that will they be able to apply for citizenship okay, how long did that whole process take?
Tania plakonouris:it. It's with my brother-in-law. We, we, we finding it incredibly hard because here in portugal the cf, which was the, the immigration officers, have now integrated into the government, so now it's IMA and with that there's a major, major backlog. So we find it very difficult to get an appointment for France. But with my husband, ryan, and Brenda, my mom-in-law, it took three months.
Warren Burley:Okay, so it's not too bad Once we were here.
Tania plakonouris:No Three months, okay, so it's not too bad Once we were here, no, so I need to just to inform you that there is a Facebook page called South Africans Helping South Africans Move to Portugal, and the owner of the page is Steve Robinson and he is a Bible of information. So he has files that are part of the facebook that you can go in there free, free information, and he tells you exactly what visa is suitable for what. So there's nomad visas, there's, you know, there's all sorts of visas that you can come in work visa, and he has done an incredible job to put all this information for public use, for yourselves if you're thinking of moving to Portugal. So I went on to that page yeah, initially and started just reading up about people's experiences and about how people were moving across the seas at the least pressure, and Steve and his information was incredible for Portugal itself.
Warren Burley:Okay, some good advice there.
Tania plakonouris:Yeah.
Warren Burley:Speaking of Facebook pages, are you part of a lot of Facebook groups there with South Africans, or is it just the one? I mean, is there a lot of?
Tania plakonouris:South Africans in Portugal? No, there is quite a few. And then once you go on into Portugal, there's South Africans in Portugal. There's a whole bunch of pages that. There's actually quite a lot of us here in Portugal and it's quite interesting. We even have, we hold bribes here and you often see people advertising where you can get, you know, food, south African food. So yeah, there's quite a good support about that.
Tania plakonouris:But saying that, I think where my transition has been a little bit easier for us is that I haven't forgotten about South Africa. I, like a lot of us, you know our roots are South African. My work was very, very South African related. I actually opened my own little non-for-profit to do community work and community development and I lived for the empowerment of our people, of the people of South Africa. So, moving here, I did have this fear that I would lose the Ubuntu of SA, and I do.
Tania plakonouris:I do feel that that is missing in Portugal or in Europe, and this is my own personal opinion and my own personal experience. But the South African Zanzi is missing anywhere else in the world and I miss that. I miss how we are charitable people. I miss that we are always hopeful, that we're always looking for a better tomorrow, that we use nature and we use our land to make ourselves feel better. We don't look for the best things in our daily lives. I do feel that the challenges here in Europe are very strong because we forget. We forget to embody where we are and who we really are as humanity, which South Africans do so well.
Warren Burley:For sure. Okay, so, talking about that, how do you stay connected to your South African roots while embracing the new life in Portugal, of course, Friends, because that's what I miss.
Tania plakonouris:I miss my friends. So I have a beautiful community of friends that I stay connected with. I constantly look on South African pages and tourism because I'm part of that, I've always been part of that industry, so I'm always connected in that way and I don't know if I'll be able to get to South Africa physically in the near future as much as I could because I'm financially strained. But no, I'm still connected and I don't bash South Africa. I think it's a beautiful place and I still like the page what's that page on South Africa saying I'm staying, why I'm staying, or I'm here to stay. This page I still love listening, I still love reading the stories about that. Yeah, south Africa is special.
Warren Burley:South Africa. South Africa never change, okay, so has there been any surprising revelations or perspectives you've gained about South Africa since moving to Portugal?
Tania plakonouris:I miss community. I miss community. I miss I don't really miss interculture, because there is here my girls go to, or my youngest daughter still goes to a local school and there are a lot of foreign people there. So, in terms of learning a new language, understanding other cultures, it's happening. But what I do miss is possibly, you know, I miss the ability to speak about different cultures freely Going back to Portugal, somebody who's never been to Portugal.
Warren Burley:Can you describe where you live? The good and the bad. The good and the bad, we want both.
Tania plakonouris:Okay Good, I was here for a few days and my neighbor gave me eggs. Um, a few days later, my neighbor gave me a cabbage. A few days later, my other neighbor gave me a bottle of wine. A few days later, I got a lift by a neighbor because she saw me walking. Um, they don't have money to offer you here, but they are very comfortable in sharing resources, which I absolutely adore. So there's no, he has more than me. So if there's eggs to share, they'll share eggs. I really really love the fact that my mother can walk to share they'll share eggs. I really really love the fact that my mother can walk to in my little village here and fetch my daughter from school and walk back. I like that. I love.
Tania plakonouris:I like the fact that we do feel safe here. Safety is a big thing. We leave the keys in the car. I don't straight away lock the car when I get in. I don't have an alarm in the house. So, yeah, safety. I try and avoid speaking about safety, but yeah, safety is a big thing here. Yeah, um, ryan, hasn't? He told me the other day he hasn't slept so peacefully in a long time. He actually sleeps through, not concerned about the noises that he hears, possibly outside, and we weren't neurotic people, but crime was on top of mind there, where it's not here. Okay.
Warren Burley:That's always important.
Tania plakonouris:That's, yeah. What's getting to me a little bit is because we live in a rural area, not so much more in the city, but animals here are treated like animals. They're not really their pets. I'm a dog lover and so it hurts me to see a dog chained and we see lots of that here in Portugal Lots and lots of chained animals. Because they're just animals and they're there for a purpose, and a purpose is to look after the herd or to show warning, sign and bark. They're not house pets as such. So I battle with that.
Warren Burley:I really do that's one good thing about the? U. It's like the dogs and cats here are like people. That's insane. They push them around in carriages and stuff and dress them up.
Tania plakonouris:Not here. There are lots of people that are decent pet lovers, but majority of the Portuguese are a pet. No, they, the Portuguese, are a pet. No, they are animals with a purpose. They have a job, and the job is A, B and C right. So I battle with that Language. Even me speaking Portuguese, it has been very, very difficult to be accepted in the sense where we're not considered to be immigrants or estrangers like they call us. So it has been difficult to be accepted into the community.
Warren Burley:Does the rest of the family speak Portuguese?
Tania plakonouris:No.
Warren Burley:Okay, so that must be quite difficult, no just me and my mom.
Tania plakonouris:Yeah, but the girls have picked it up. The kids have picked it up very, very quickly, and that's just because of who the kids are. I have read many posts and many forums where children have battled, and we mustn't assume that they can just be brilliant. They also go through some really hard stuff, you know, and that's the other big, big, big, big concern on my heart is that the children here, or the youth of today in Europe, they are way ahead of our kids in terms of being street savvy. So the swearing is just like second nature here and the bullying is really harsh, and so Not just there believe me, I think it's yeah.
Tania plakonouris:And so I'm having to tell the kids every day have you got your armor on, you know? And then they come back from home and I, okay, let's fix your armor, let's repair it.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Tania plakonouris:So you know, you have to be a really tight little family for the kids to be ready for what's out there, because they miss home, they don't see their old friends, the language is different, the school curriculum is different, but you know, we don't complain in front of them and they don't feel our hardship. And we, like you know, be positive in front of them and they don't feel our hardship. And we, like you know, be positive in front of them and they, we say, okay, tomorrow will be a better day. But we, we, we can feel your challenge and we speak about your challenge, but let's see if we can. You know, maybe better, it's a little bit the next day and yeah, so the kids have found that the kids are very different here, very different. So it is a, it is a true culture shock. Yeah, I can't, I can't say it any better. It is a true culture shock, I can't say it any better. It is a true culture shock, but it's one to embrace and see where we go from there.
Warren Burley:So what advice would you give to someone thinking about moving to Portugal?
Tania plakonouris:Know what you know and know what you don't know. That's a good one that my husband always says yeah, do your homework, don't believe everything that social media puts on Facebook. Yeah, so read up, read up a lot, but sure, it's an exciting thing to do. It's a wonderful thing to experience, to leave your comfort zone and create another right. Yeah, so that's what I've really appreciated. So, yeah, so if you're ever thinking of of leaving south africa, um, do it with the sense that you you're not leaving shit behind. Yeah, um, you're taking your shit with you and you're going to try and create a better environment.
Tania plakonouris:Okay, you know so, yeah. So don't say, oh, I'm going to leave this terrible place because you are the terrible place.
Warren Burley:That's some good advice actually.
Tania plakonouris:Know that, yeah, you create. You know peace is where I am. This is what we say to ourselves all the time. So you create what you want to create and so come with very open arms. Understand that you are coming into an environment that is very different.
Tania plakonouris:When we arrived here, you know what was the biggest challenge? Was that people really just start waking up or going out from nine in the evening? So we arrived here and, okay, we arrived in the winter. So we arrived in late January. So we came into freezing cold with our little South African jerseys, and so we had to quickly sort that out. And then we bought some decent clothes and then we understood about the early evenings.
Tania plakonouris:Everybody goes back, you know, comes indoors at night in the winter, but summer came and nothing really comes alive before 9 pm, and that's when we want to go to bed, but the parties are after nine the festers, the markets, children's activities. So Mila, my oldest we encouraged both girls to be part of an extramural activity. So Mila went straight into her flute, so she became part of an orchestra and training was only at half past nine at night. So, yes, ryan and I were going to drop her off at the training at half past nine at night until half past 11 and I'm thinking, no, I can't do this. Back home we are locked up ready for bed half past eight yeah, right, yeah in bed by nine dinner yes at dinner.
Tania plakonouris:Yes, supper at a restaurant yeah, you go in at 7 o'clock at night and it's dead, dead, dead dead and you think, oh goodness, is this a good restaurant, or why is no one here? It starts to become quite happy about hot post 8. It's bursting with energy from 10 o'clock at night until like 1, 2 o'clock and I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, can I actually even start comprehending about this lifestyle? And then everybody only starts work at 9 o'clock in the morning.
Warren Burley:I was going to say what time do they get up?
Tania plakonouris:No, so then it's a late arrival at work. Work starts here at 9 o'clock, and then you have a lunch break and then you work until 7pm. And hence why everything, all other murals, all other activities only happen after 7, because everyone is working until 7pm.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Tania plakonouris:Because they take long lunch breaks and everybody goes home and has a lunch and so, yeah, so that was a big adjustment to the time zones. Yeah, to the weather. So weather's a thing here too. You know, us South Africans, we talk about weather, but it is. It's a big adjustment, although Portugal is mild weather in comparison to some other countries. So, yeah, so it's quite funny. You think that these things don't make a difference, but they do. Little challenges that you can make very big, but if you laugh about them and you think, hang on, I'll be okay within a year, waking up at seven, only going to school at half past eight.
Warren Burley:It sounds like you've got a lot of challenges, but it also sounds like you're overcoming them quite easily.
Tania plakonouris:We do. There's been tears, I have cried and I have thought oh, my goodness, am I doing the right thing with the children? It's always the kids. You know. You kind of lose your identity as a person because you're a parent first. So you almost say, okay, if the kids are okay, you'll be okay. But also that's not, that's nonsense, you know, because if you're okay, the kids will be okay yeah, yeah, because they kind of feed off our energy, don't they?
Tania plakonouris:you read, they do so it's it's both ways. So, ryan and I really we do try and be positive about it, but we don't hide our fears, because it's all about fears and you know. And it's also about being brave, because you know you've got to be brave. We have to be brave to leave something we know and something that we are so comfortable with, but and to change, to change our whole perspective about things and what is right and what's wrong To me. You know, there was this one person that told me because you know, I often speak about religion and I often talk about my deep faith, and I remember a very, very close friend of mine saying oh, you know, excuse me for my language, but he says no, man, the Ten Commandments, all you need to do is not be an arsehole. That's my Ten Commandments.
Warren Burley:Just be lackey.
Tania plakonouris:Just be good, just be good, you know, and then everything else will come.
Warren Burley:It's true advice. So what does the future hold for you in Portugal? Any exciting projects or goals?
Tania plakonouris:I think we're having short-term goals right now, um, because of the challenges we, we we find ourselves in terms of finances. We, we've got all our life savings in one little, in one little bag, and we're building our new home. Um, so, finances to to just keep it. The other big challenge would be, or the other next goal is to create a better career for myself, and so I really do appreciate that I've been given the opportunity to start all over again, and I appreciate being given the task of doing something that's simple but yet so important in the bigger picture of things. So, yes, I'm cleaning and, yes, I'm serving breakfast again and, yes, I'm doing purchasing and I'm not delegating and running, you know, a five-star hotel anymore. Yet I'm part of something, I'm part of a cog that needs to to work, so, but I would like to see more of myself, um, so I can see more of myself. So the goal would be is to allow me to get, or have, opportunity to be more, so I would like to continuously look for that opportunity to be more so. That could be a goal. So I don't know what it is, but it's there.
Tania plakonouris:Ron and I want to maybe start a business for our whole family, so my sister-in-law, kim and Franz. We often talk about starting a construction business here in Portugal because we're all quite handy when it comes to you know, we're quite resourceful with our hands, so maybe that's something that we could pursue. It's just a talk now, but possibly something to pursue, and I'd like to see my children have the opportunity to either come to me and say great, mom, you've given me the opportunity to live in a rural area, but I want to go to university, or no, I want a homestead, I want to carry on living from the land. So I want to give them opportunity, I want to give them options, and I felt that I wasn't giving that to them in South Africa, so I'm hoping that that goal is something that I could do.
Warren Burley:Yeah, so final question, the famous question that everybody gets asked is the grass greener on the other side?
Tania plakonouris:My grass was beautiful in South Africa, and so I'm planning to make my grass beautiful here too. My grass was beautiful, yeah, so I'm going to make my grass beautiful here too. My grass was beautiful, yeah, so I'm going to make it beautiful here too.
Warren Burley:Well, it sounds like you're bringing the shit with you. Exactly, make the grass greener, okay, yeah.
Tania plakonouris:It might not be now.
Warren Burley:Yeah, it's been fantastic having you on the show. Thank you for your time.
Warren Burley:It's a pleasure and good luck for the future and hopefully we catch up soon thank you, thank you, thank you, you take care you too, thanks, thanks, talia okay, bye, bye if you're eager to explore more stories of South Africans Abroad, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a moment for exclusive updates, discussions and a chance to connect with fellow listeners. Be sure to join our vibrant community on Facebook. Just search for South Africans Abroad Podcast and become part of the conversation there. You'll find additional content, behind the scenes insights and an easy way to access all your favorite episodes. So until next time, check you Tuesday.
