South Africans Abroad
A show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. Each episode, we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones, or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat, and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles, and joys of being a South African living overseas.
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South Africans Abroad
NICOLE'S TAPESTRY OF EXPAT EXPERIENCES
Embarking on a new chapter across the ocean, Nicole Woodstock shares her colorful journey from the bustling world of South African advertising to the sunny shores of Florida, where motherhood and entrepreneurship await. With wit and wisdom, she peels back the layers of the American dream, revealing the complexities of immigration, the decisions that steered her family from Europe to the U.S., and the intricate dance of cultural adaptation. Nicole's tale is not just one of change, but a lesson in resilience, as she navigates the nuances of a new market with her business while holding onto the essence of her South African roots.
Our conversation with Nicole is a vibrant tapestry of experiences, blending the excitement of American sports prospects for her children, with the sobering realities of a healthcare system worlds away from what she knew. We traverse the amusing twists of language that bewilder and delight, and explore the value of educational opportunities that America offers her family. Join us for this episode that is as much about the joys and pitfalls of expatriate life as it is about the power of community, and don't forget to connect with fellow listeners in our South Africans Abroad Podcast Facebook group to keep the conversation going.
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Welcome back to South Africans Abroad a show for expat South Africans and anyone interested in the experiences of those who have made the move overseas. In e Each episode we'll hear from South Africans who have left the country to pursue new opportunities, be with loved ones, or simply follow their dreams. We'll explore the challenges and triumphs of life as an expat and the unique perspective that comes with being a South African abroad. I'm your host, warren Burley, an expat South African who, like many, followed the dream of working overseas. Whether you're an expat yourself or just curious about the expat experience, join us as we delve into the motivations, struggles, and joys of being a South African living overseas. Thanks for joining us. Today we're going to Florida to speak with Nicole Wittstock. Nicole is a mother, an artist, and an entrepreneur from Johannesburg . Nicole, how are you doing? Hey, warren, good, and you, yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Do you want to just introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about you, hey?
Nicole Wittstock:everyone, my name is Nicole. I am a mother, a wife, entrepreneur and, most foremost, an artist.
Warren Burley:Okay, great. When we first met, you were in advertising. What brought on the change?
Nicole Wittstock:It was a great industry to be in when I was younger, but when I decided that I wanted to have a family, it just wasn't possible. I couldn't fall pregnant. The stress levels were too high, the demands were too high, there was no free time. So I thought, okay, I've given my all to this industry, I've had my fun, so it's now time to move on.
Warren Burley:Okay, so how long have you been in the States now?
Nicole Wittstock:Just over two years.
Warren Burley:Everywhere you could have gone in the world. Why America?
Nicole Wittstock:I think it's living the American dream. You know, we could have easily gone over to Europe. I've got an Italian passport so we could have gone to the UK, we could have gone to Europe, but there's just nothing quite as empowering as getting into the States. You know, nobody can. It's this unattainable dream and to be able to do that was quite incredible actually.
Warren Burley:Okay, so let's just talk about that for a second. So how difficult was it for you to get into the States?
Nicole Wittstock:Because I mean it's not an easy thing, right it was a mammoth task. Yeah, no, it was mammoth. It's still not a done deal. It's a constant uphill slug. It's expensive, it's at times soul-destroying, but also super rewarding. Every now and then, Keith and I my husband and I look at each other and we're like we're in America. Sometimes it's really surreal.
Warren Burley:what is your visa status at the moment?
Nicole Wittstock:So we came over on an L1 visa. So Keith did a startup business of his business in South Africa. We brought it across the side. So it's an executive transfer L1 visa. Myself and the kids are on the L2, which piggyback off the l1 right um, yeah, so it's. It's quite an executive visa. It's one of the more expensive ones to do, unless you do the straight buyout, which you know. Unless you've got a little bit of cash hanging around, that's not an option for everyone yeah um, yeah, so it's an executive one.
Warren Burley:Just tell everyone what Keith does.
Nicole Wittstock:So he's got an engineering business in South Africa. So he's got an engineering business in South Africa. He does shelving, pallet racking, expandable security gates, adjustable louver awnings. We also dabble in building and rental. So he builds our properties, I manage the rentals. I still do that from the side.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock:And we found that the best option for us to bring across and easiest was shelving and overhead ceiling racks, because everybody needs storage to the side. I can't actually believe how people use their garages as storage space, not as a parking space for their vehicles, yep.
Warren Burley:And they all sit outside their garages like all day, that's bizarre.
Nicole Wittstock:That's bizarre, but anyway it's fine. We've got to fit into a new know, a new norm, I suppose.
Warren Burley:Yeah, because I was going to say, like security gates and stuff like that, I mean that can't be that big. I mean I'm sure it's getting to a point now where it's starting to, you know, pick on, but there can't be much business for that actually.
Nicole Wittstock:Yeah, we've never. We haven't actually investigated that route at all, because it's not a crime-ridden place, especially not where we are in Lake Mary Florida. You know it's non-existent. There's no walls, there's no security on the windows and doors, so it's not needed.
Warren Burley:And how did you just talking about security and stuff like that, how did you find that? Like when you first arrived here, because I was in shock there's no walls, there's no security gates.
Nicole Wittstock:I felt very unsafe and vulnerable. Actually, it took me a good long while to adjust to that because we all know, especially from Joburg, you live behind these high walls and electric fence and security bars and beams and then you come here and there's nothing and it's dark outside and you're like there's no walls, there's nothing protecting us and it's quiet and it's quiet.
Nicole Wittstock:Well, I don't know about quiet, there's fire engines and police sirens going all the time, but it's. It's just so dramatic they deployed for a cat that's stuck up in a tree you know?
Warren Burley:yeah, exactly, and the whole world must stop. Yeah, don't you find it crazy? Also, like, like, when a fire engine or something comes down the road, everyone just pulls over to the side of the road.
Nicole Wittstock:It's incredible, like it's a party trick, if we have visitors over from Joburg.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock:The courtesy of other drivers. So everybody's like, oh, the I-4, it's so crazy and it's terrible to drive on, but there's four lanes and people stick to those four lanes. There's two shoulders on either side and if you indicate, people slow down and let you in. You know South Africa, you indicate and people speed up to close the gap. So it's just totally different yeah, no, it is crazy.
Warren Burley:Did you explore the whole of America or did you just go straight?
Nicole Wittstock:oh, we want to go to Florida so our process was was okay, we're going to the US, great. Then we looked at all the different states and we're like we don't want cold, we don't want to be shoveling snow, we act of outdoor people, so we don't want to be restricted to the house. That was another thing why we didn't go to Europe, because we don't want to have to deal with the cold. So that narrowed it down. And then also the taxes, so you don't get personal tax and the taxes were a big criteria for us. So it kind of narrowed it down to Texas and Florida. Then we were like okay, we're starting up a business. Texas is very vast, so to start something and be able to spread it out would take a lot more time.
Nicole Wittstock:So that narrowed it down to Florida. Then I wanted to be on the coastline but Keith works with steel so we were like, okay, it can't be coast. So central Florida. Then it was what are the good school zones? Because obviously the kids are going to public schools. And that narrowed it down to it was Lake Mary, avido and Lake Nona. Keith managed to get warehouse space in Longwood, so Lake Mary it was. That was basically our process.
Warren Burley:How true is it? Because everybody says everything in Florida is trying to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock:Freaking hell, and it's true. So, as in South Africa, we've got amazingly scary creatures, but they'll kill you quickly, you know. And they're not everywhere Florida there's bugs. The mosquitoes will carry you away. There's little things that they like to nickname no-see-ums because you don't see them. They're tiny little midges and they sting you. So it feels like elastic bands snapping on your skin, oh my God. And then like mosquito bites and they sting you. So it feels like elastic bands snapping on your skin and then, like mosquito bites, they maybe last one or two days. The noceum bites. They last for weeks and weeks and they itch and it's crazy.
Nicole Wittstock:Then snakes I've never seen such a high density of snakes in my life we we live on in south africa we have a five and a half hectare plot on the river and there were snakes, but not in the density that we've seen them here. So Keith goes and plays golf and if people hit their balls into the rough they just leave it. Keith was like that's ridiculous. Golf balls are expensive. He knocked it, landed in the rough. He went to fetch it and a snake was coiled around it.
Warren Burley:Oh, my God.
Nicole Wittstock:So it's just like yeah, no, we're not going to do that. And then also alligators, but they're the most stupid creatures. We think alligators, crocodiles, are the same variant. Nah, these things are so docile and so obviously you don't go out there dawn and dusk and you don't harass the things, but they really don't pay much attention to people.
Warren Burley:No, so that's one of the reasons I didn't go to Florida because all the bugs and no, as big as I am. When it comes to snakes and crocodiles and bugs that you can't see that want to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock:No, thank you I'm still alive and it's two years down the line, so we'll be fine, and there's lots of people here. You know what you need to cope, what I struggled with, so we decided to go to somewhere that was warm. But, oh my goodness, summers like July, august in Florida it's brutal. It's brutal, it's humid and it's hot and it's like searing. You want to melt.
Warren Burley:It sounds like a rock party out there.
Nicole Wittstock:No, it's great. I love it. The other thing that took quite a lot of getting used to was it's so flat in Florida.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock:There's no like rolling hills and mountains and nothing that we're used to in South Africa. Yeah, and also because of all the waterways, the roads are not mapped. It's quite easy to follow roads in most places because they run straight and cross diagonally across each other. This place they weave and they tune. It's interesting. So when you're coming to visit, yeah, I don't know about that.
Warren Burley:I mean, that's one of the reasons we chose California. Okay, california, I mean obviously got its problems, you know, with taxes and things like that, but I have to see mountains and ocean. I mean, I went to Texas, we went to go check out Texas, and Texas is also just flat. I could see like every city from the airport. It was insane. I was like, no, just you know not, not for me. And then also the heat and and extreme cold and extreme heat, and then also everything in texas wants to kill you.
Nicole Wittstock:So, yeah, you know including the people with their guns including the people.
Warren Burley:There's a church and a gun shop on every corner.
Nicole Wittstock:It's so weird oh, it's crazy, but you having what we have in Florida there's a lot of beauty and a lot of water and I don't know, I'm drawn to water, yeah.
Warren Burley:Look, the thing about the States is the beauty. People don't understand how, like when I first arrived here, I was in awe for a long time. Like everywhere you look, it's just it's amazing. And every place you go to I mean Idaho and just everywhere it's insanely beautiful.
Nicole Wittstock:And totally different. It's like each little state is its own country. Yeah, like Florida is, most of South Africa can fit into Florida.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock:So like just to give perspective to people on the size of the states.
Warren Burley:That's the other thing. People don't realize how big the place is. It's like oh you look on a map. Oh, let's just walk to the shop or whatever. Two hours later you're like oh my God, that was a bad idea yeah bad idea. Let's buy a car. You know it's not going to happen, tell me. Let's talk about the kids for a second. How have they adjusted to the state's?
Nicole Wittstock:life. They've thrived. Basically we got to. I think because the accent is such a novelty, they were really interesting for the other kids. And then South Africa as many problems as there are, there's huge advantages. There's huge pros as well. So our education system is actually quite high, especially coming from private schools. They got into school and like sailed, you know it's just easy. And what the States does is they really want to give the kids opportunities to do well. So if they don't do well in an exam or they fail an assignment, there's opportunities to redo and get extra credits. They really want to help kids and so both my kids are really sporty and active and just the opportunities with that alone. So Slade with his football he's passionate about it. I know Brandon is as well. But how far they can go with football and how far Talia's passionate about basketball and swimming there's just so many opportunities here that we just are not exposed to anywhere else.
Warren Burley:And it's not just football, like the big sports. Brandon's playing, he's doing shot put and things. At the moment there's scholarships for shot put. I mean that's insane.
Warren Burley:Everything, Like anything you want to do, which is I mean that's a big plus here and tell me because I mean they came here pretty late in their school career, right in their school life. Yes, we were quite lucky. When we came over here, brandon was starting school, so he started straight in the system and he doesn't you know, he didn't really know anything else. Also, you know, he picked up the accent straight away. We often get phone calls from the school, like his friends from school saying oh, are you really from South Africa? Brandon says she's from South Africa, you know. So do they have any challenges with that?
Nicole Wittstock:So Talia? No, she switches. So we love to say to her when she's home, talia speaks South African because she'll be speaking American, and then as soon as she's with her friends, she speaks. You wouldn't know that she's not from South Africa, so she can switch it on and off Slade. On the other hand, he's totally South African. What's interesting is new words that he's learned are American words, but his general day-to-day language is South African. So initially it was interesting. Then he went through a patch where he was teased about it and ostracized and now that he's kind of got into high school and he's found football, he's kind of found his people. Now it's all settled and he's thriving.
Nicole Wittstock:But I find it a challenge. You know, you think it's English, you know we're speaking the same language, but it's so random. It's so not going through a drive-through is very challenging because they just don't understand and tavia's friends, I'll speak to them and she literally translates for me. Yeah, so I'll say something. They'll look at me blank. She'll say exactly the same thing. I'm like that's just what I said.
Warren Burley:Yeah, it's bizarre we stay, there's not many foreigners. You know, we live in a little town called eastvale. Um stay, there's not many foreigners. You know, we live in a little town called Eastvale. Okay, and there's not many foreigners. I mean, I don't think they've ever seen another South African.
Nicole Wittstock:Yeah.
Warren Burley:Also, where my son goes to school is Norco. It's a cowboy town. It's known as cowboy town. That's cool. I mean there's people on horseback Going, you know, going to school. Oh, that's awesome, and when they hear our accent as well, especially drive-thrus, no clue. Can I have some tomato, what, what? And then my son goes tomato and it's like that's what I said.
Nicole Wittstock:That's exactly the same thing.
Warren Burley:All of a sudden, you have to speak a foreign language. It's crazy, and I mean, we've been there 10 years now and it's still.
Nicole Wittstock:And also like crazy, and I mean we've been at 10 years now and still. And also like words are just so different, like pavement, sidewalk track, fit like a robot um boot. If I say to tell you put something in the boot, your friends like huh, no, mom, it's a trunk, use the right words. And the other day I needed to get slayed to a wrestling meet and I had four of his friends in the car with me and for some reason half the wrestling meet was in one area and then the next half was in another area, and I didn't realize. So I went to the first place and I was almost there and the kids started laughing and I was like what's wrong? No, you're at the wrong place.
Nicole Wittstock:So I was running so late and I crossed over the center island to do a U-turn and when I was explaining it to one of the other moms, she's like you went all the way to the islands. I'm like no, what do you mean? You know that little centerpiece between the two roads I had to cross? She's like oh, the median.
Nicole Wittstock:I'm like, no, no, it's the center island, check there's nothing medium about it my brother-in-law was a doctor in south africa gp and he had his own practice. But if there were emergencies he'd deal with the emergency and, like our casualties, you do everything. He moved to the UK and he's now in the hospitals, but he can only do what he's designated to do. So if there's an emergency coming in and he needs to do tracheotomy, he's not allowed to because he's not qualified to do that. And I find the same thing in the States. They're so over-the-top cautious with medical things and I think it's all about not being sued, because you know you can sue for everything this side. But I actually find it quite pathetic how, firstly, how expensive medical is and how your standard GP, everything's a referral. So I'm like why am I going to the GP in the first place? Yeah, and dental is stupid expensive, but anyway, that's one of the negatives, but there's a lot of positives. So I think with anything and anywhere there's pros and cons always.
Warren Burley:Yeah, just going back to the language barriers and things like that, have you encountered any stereotypes about South Africa?
Nicole Wittstock:I find that they don't really know much about South Africa. So, firstly, if they hear the accent, it's either immediately British or Australian. Sometimes they're pushed New Zealand, but very, very seldom South African, because I don't think they just don't encounter it much and they don't watch South African TV. There's no place of reference for them. And then a lot of them are like okay, so you come from south africa. Where about in africa is that? I'm like are you shitting me? South africa it's the bottom part of africa. The name says it all. It's south africa's own little country, right at the bottom of africa. So once you've got over explaining that, then it's like okay, so do you have running water, do you? And, um, do you have wi-fi and do you have animals in your? Do you have Wi-Fi and do you have animals in your backyard? And so those kind of stereotypes. And then obviously the kids love it. They're like yes, we had a pet hippo. And you know they speak real crap, because they just laugh that it's so extreme that people actually think that way.
Warren Burley:Well, you probably got more animals in your backyard now, right?
Nicole Wittstock:Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, I've got a pet snake, that kind of slithers out every summer.
Warren Burley:I'm going to talk about snakes, please, and I have to try and avoid it. No snakes, no spiders oh my God, because I've heard about the spiders there as well.
Nicole Wittstock:Anyway, I haven't really encountered spiders, which is great, because I'm terrified of spiders.
Nicole Wittstock:But snakes terrified of spiders, but snakes I'm okay with. Have you? Have you traveled a lot since you've been here? We haven't yet to be passionate about traveling and we really want to see more of the states. But, to be very honest with you, it's been tough. Financially. It's been hard.
Nicole Wittstock:Um, you know you don't have the labor force that you have in south af, so basically you're it. I joked the other day with my mom and I said I'm sick and tired of my housekeeper. She's useless, she's miserable, she doesn't do things properly, she's forgetful. I need to find another one. And I'm like, oh, but actually, oops, that's me, you know. So we don't have the lackies of. We take for granted in South Africa how spoiled we are and like our labor force, they're really useful because people here don't want to work. You've got the Mexicans, which on our own we cannot employ, so they want to work like generally I am generalizing, but they're more the workforce. And then the Floridians are super lazy and just don't want to do anything. We desperately want to travel, but we just need to get a house first and there's so many other things we need to do before we explore the rest of the states.
Warren Burley:Everybody goes through that right Financially and people come over here. We were all blessed back home, let's put it that way. We were all doing well, but we worked our whole life to get where we were and then, all of a sudden, we pack up and start over, we come overseas and we think it's going to be all roses. How did you cope, or how are you coping, with that, the big change you know?
Nicole Wittstock:There's days when I hate it, but it's been a great life lesson for my kids because once again, we were really spoiled in south africa. We had businesses, we had properties, we had, we were thriving, and if we went to the shops and they wanted gum or they wanted chocolate or they wanted cold drink, it was was like, okay, cool, you can have it. Whereas now they want and they want and it's like, sorry, guys, you can't have it. It's either you're going to get dinner or you're going to get junk food and, quite honestly, dinner is what it's going to be. Also, for them to move from like a 800 square meter house to a tiny little condominium where you can't swing cats, it's been challenging for them, but it's taught them that life's not always going to stay the same.
Nicole Wittstock:What you have, what you have today, you might not have tomorrow. Appreciate what you have and make the best of every situation because, yes, you're living in a tiny little house now, that's not ours, but you can walk to your friends' houses and you can walk to the complex pool and not worry about anything. You can drive down the road with your windows down, so, yeah, and you can have an education and opportunities going forward. So that was the biggest move for us. It was not for Keith and I. You know we were doing well, we were fine there, except for the load shedding and stuff.
Warren Burley:But looking forward and opportunities for Satan Taylor, that was why we moved yeah, and look, I think 90% of the people I talk to on the podcast that's their reason is their children. Yeah, it's opportunity for them. I mean, the opportunities are endless here. You can be anything you want to be. You just can't be lazy and hopefully the South African in them kicks in forever, because South Africa that's one thing we're not is lazy. I mean that's what we?
Nicole Wittstock:Yeah, we're great, we're good workers.
Warren Burley:Yeah, we'll thrive, no matter what right. Is there a big South African community where you are? None, oh nice.
Nicole Wittstock:I think we've met maybe three other South African couples like close to where we stay. There's one family that we met on a skiing trip. That was with a group of Keith's friends many years ago and they stay in Ormond Beach, which is about a 15-minute drive from us, but otherwise no. So there are the SAFA groups and they do have get-togethers but it's not like it's close to us and, quite honestly, I'm not too perturbed about being just with South Africans, because just because you're South African doesn't mean that you're going to get together and enjoy each other's company. There's people that I wouldn't socialize with in South Africa because we're just not the same. So why suddenly, because I'm in another country, must we become best friends? I'd rather you've moved to another country. You need to integrate and become that country instead of staying back and trying to hold on to South Africa so hard.
Warren Burley:And what do you miss about South Africa?
Nicole Wittstock:I miss my parents. That's been really hard. My brother, I miss the space of my house. There's just something about South Africa. That's been really hard. My brother, I miss the space of my house. There's just something about South Africa that's nowhere else in the world and, quite honestly, I didn't leave South Africa and I'm not going to bash South Africa because I hated the country. I love the country. I'll always be South African and it's in your blood. But right now I don't have any desire to go back, just because I need to be looking forward and need to make America my home.
Warren Burley:Okay On that. Do you ever see yourself going back?
Nicole Wittstock:Not for a long time. No, not unless I absolutely have to. Because you touched on the subject of traveling and I'm like okay, I've seen and done 98% of South Africa, 98% of South Africa, but now I'm going to spend all that money to travel back there. When I can explore that money, I can use to explore two different states this side.
Warren Burley:Yeah.
Nicole Wittstock:So, unless there's an emergency, no, keith has to travel backwards and forwards. Obviously, we've still got our businesses that side, yeah, but to do it as an entire family, no, I don't want to.
Warren Burley:All right, so any advice you would give to someone that wants to move to Florida.
Nicole Wittstock:I'd say be prepared.
Warren Burley:Bring lots of golf balls.
Nicole Wittstock:Yeah, I'd say be prepared for the heat, because it's intense, it's like Mozambique heat and be open to wherever you move. Be open and receptive to that space. Don't be closed off and like, try and stay South African, because I think that is super difficult. If you, if you make the decision to move, then you do it wholeheartedly, because otherwise you'll never be happy you'll. I know too many people that have moved somewhere, hated it because they didn't embrace it, moved back to South Africa, hated it, moved again. So until you decide to be happy, you won't be, no matter where you are.
Warren Burley:Some good advice there. All right, nicole, thanks. Thank you, that was quite a nice chat and I appreciate your time. Awesome, nice catching up. Hopefully we'll come visit soon, when all the snakes die.
Nicole Wittstock:Yeah, come in winter because, then it's temperate and there's no creatures out.
Warren Burley:We'll catch up soon.
Nicole Wittstock:Thanks again, and have a good one, cheers.
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